The Life of a Teenage Songwriter: A talk with Olivia O'Brien

A teenage girl from a small town in Northern California, Olivia O’Brien was catapulted into the public eye when she scored a platinum hit with her debut, gnash’s “i hate u, i love u.” The song came together when a fifteen year-old Olivia sent the then unknown rapper/producer a voice memo of a song she wrote in 2015. Satisfied with having a “real song” out so she wouldn’t be made fun of at school, she had no idea what she was actually in for.

Label interest was immediate, which eventually led to a deal with Island Records. She’s playing the pop game, but on her own terms. Instead of sessions with several other writers, or featuring vocalists, what you hear is what you get – songs by Olivia. Fresh off her first nationwide tour, today marks the release of her first EP, “It’s Not That Deep.”

Interview and Photography by Andy Gorel

Andy: How long have you been writing songs?

Olivia: Forever. Since I could write words. Since I learned what rhyming was basically.

Andy: What drew you to being a songwriter?

Olivia: I went to Montessori school when I was little. It’s a type of alternative school where you don’t have grades, you have years – everyone’s included. You have circle time where you play the drums, and it’s this weird, expensive type of schooling. All the classes are classrooms combined with three different years. It’s very weird, but I think it’s really shaped me as a person. Because of it, I’ve skipped a grade. I hated it when I was little because I thought I was weird, but now I’m very happy that I went there cause I really think it’s the reason that I’m doing what I’m doing.

Andy: So what made you want to write songs? You said you started when you were young, about how old?

Olivia: Honestly, I think I was about six or seven.

Andy: Were there any artists you heard and really liked, or were you just naturally drawn to melody?

Olivia: We always sang stuff in school. We would sit down and sing songs about stuff, which I liked. But when it came to writing songs, I don’t even know. It was just something that I did. It was how I wrote about how I felt. I always liked it.

Andy: When you started pop songwriting, were there any artists you looked up to?

Olivia: Because of the way everything happened for me, I didn’t even really think about that. Like now, SZA, Kehlani. At the beginning it was just more, “I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m just gonna write words down, and see what happens.”

Andy: So “i hate u, i love u” was the first released song you sang on, which was released by gnash. You wrote the song originally, so how’d that collaboration come about?

Olivia: I wasn’t even an artist at the time. I had never put out anything. I made SoundCloud covers on my iPhone and played chords on my keyboard in my room. It was really bad. Literally, I would do one take, and upload them. I don’t even know why I did it. I didn’t think I was good. I got made fun of so much at school. Everyone hated me. It was really funny.

I did a cover of one of his songs. He didn’t have any followers at the time. He only had one song. He heard it, invited me to his show in San Francisco, and when I was there he asked me if I had original stuff, so I sent him “i hate u, i love u,” and I originally thought it was gonna be my song, he was gonna produce it. He sent it back to me with his verse on it and was like let’s release it as my song cause I have more followers than you on soundcloud. I was like fifteen and was like “Okay!” So I got fifty percent of everything which was pretty safe. I feel like I could have gotten screwed out of that.

Andy: You’re lucky that as a fifteen year-old girl with no team at all that you got that fair of a split.

Olivia: I didn’t think anything was gonna happen with it at all. I was like “Cool, I have a real song. Maybe people will stop making fun of me now.” Boy I was wrong. Now I live in the Hollywood Hills (laughs).

I hate the whole process of everything. It’s all so fucking shitty. I don’t work with other writers anymore. I write my songs because I write them about my life. I’m not trying to have a hit fucking song.

Andy: It was just you and gnash right? One writer, one producer?

Olivia: Yep, 50/50.

Andy: Those are the best kind of pop songs, one writer, one producer. Like a true hit. So many of these huge pop records anymore have like twenty people on them, and it’s like..

Olivia: It’s so fucking annoying. Oh god. I hate the whole process of everything. It’s all so fucking shitty. I don’t work with other writers anymore. I write my songs because I write them about my life. I’m not trying to have a hit fucking song.

I write with my friends sometimes though. My best friend Drew is an amazing writer, and so is one of my other best friends, Josh. They’re just so good, and the reason I like to write with them is because they know what’s going on in my life. They know everything about me. It’s just to bounce ideas off. I want to feel comfortable in my sessions. A lot of times, I’ll work with new producers, and I don’t even know them. So I’ll sit there and talk to my friend who’s with me, and they’ll get all my ideas flowing. Or they’ll come up with a cool thing, and I’ll put it into syllables and words. It’s a really cool dynamic.

Top-liners are fucking stupid. (derisively) “Let’s write a top line!”

Andy: You signed with Island Records – after the “i hate u, i love u” success. Did you take meetings with a lot of labels? What made Island the right fit for you?

Olivia: At the very end it was down to APG and Island. I really loved all the people at APG. They were all amazing to me. It was one of the toughest decisions I made in my life. But Island – I love David Massey. I think he’s amazing. He really cares about the artistry of music. To be the head of a label, and care about your artists writing their songs. He loves all my stuff, and is so passionate about me and the other artists.

A&R’s and people within the label change, but David Massey isn’t going anywhere. Island is his child. So that’s what I was thinking. I love the people at APG, but how would I know if they were gonna stick around. In the end, David Massey decides everything. My A&R might help me with stuff, but if David doesn’t like it, it’s not coming out. Just the fact that I felt like I could trust him. I felt like it was right.

So many kids go to school, rack up loans, and then go into the real world and can’t get a fucking job. A degree, yeah it means something to a lot of people, but in the end to get the job, you have to have so much more.

Andy: Once you signed how did things change? Finishing school, lots of writing sessions, etc.

Olivia: I didn’t do school. I dropped out. I was straight A’s, gonna go to Harvard. Graduating high school and going to college was not even a fucking question in my mind, and then suddenly I was like, “I’m not gonna do school anymore.”

It was stupid. It was all so easy to me. I bullshitted my way through everything. High school’s a joke. So many kids go to school, rack up loans, and then go into the real world and can’t get a fucking job. A degree, yeah it means something to a lot of people, but in the end to get the job, you have to have so much more.

Andy: Of the singles out now, do you have a favorite or two, and what they mean to you?

Olivia: “No Love” is my most recent one, and it’s definitely my favorite. It takes so long to release music when you’re on a major label, but was probably the quickest release for me. I wrote it a few months ago, and it’s already out. They heard it and were like “We love this. We wanna release it,” and I was like “Thank fucking God.” I was pretty happy about that. It’s my first song that’s not about like “boys” and “relationships.” I’ve been writing a lot more stuff like that lately. It’s definitely more current.

Andy: You also covered Avril Lavigne’s “Complicated.” Of all the songs to put effort into covering, what made you choose this one?

Olivia: Gnash produced it. We did it in the same session as “i hate u, i love u.” He had the idea. He was like “I want you to be the next Avril Lavigne,” and I was like “I’m so down. I love Avril Lavigne.” “Sk8r Boi,” when I was in fourth grade I memorized that whole song. Me and my friends were going around the playground singing it to everyone.

When I’m feeling crazy is when I write my best songs, because I’m not scared to dig to my deepest feelings and put them somewhere.

Andy: So your inspiration for your songs, are there any things, places, circumstances, etc, you find as very fertile grounds creatively?

Olivia: When I’m really feeling stuff. When I’m really emotional – which is like all the time. When I get drunk, I want to cry about everything. The other day I was really drunk, and crying, and I threw my phone at the ground and broke it cause I just got angry.

When I’m feeling crazy is when I write my best songs, because I’m not scared to dig to my deepest feelings and put them somewhere, which is why most people aren’t songwriters, because they don’t know how to get to that.

I was like “I need to go home and write. I need to leave the club, go home, and put this down.”

Andy: Are there any non-musical influences on the sound of your music?

Olivia: Not really. I feel like I’m my own muse. Not in a selfish way, but I write for myself. It’s my therapy. I used to go to therapy, and I hated it cause I don’t wanna talk to some old white lady about my problems.

Andy: Going forward what can listeners expect in your new tunes?

Olivia: I have no idea, because I have all these songs, and I don’t know if I wanna release them now. Some of them are two years old. It’s crazy. Because I was just thrown into this, I had to learn what sound I wanted. It’s still changing for me. I’m not even sure I’m gonna use them. I want people to hear them, but I have to remind myself the new stuff is gonna be better.