The first trip to Budapest.

If you’ve ever made such a voyage, you know what to expect – sweeping river views, exuberant nightlife, thermal springs, paprika. But for Norwegian singer-songwriter Dagny, when she boarded a flight from Oslo in the wee hours of the morning on August 8, it was all still a mystery.

Little did she know that less than 12 hours later she would draw thousands of enthusiastic fans on the biggest stage in Central Europe at that moment – the Main Stage at Sziget Festival.

It’s past 3 PM in the backstage as artist relations and stage crew scurry back and forth, lining up the second of six nights of music. In the artist lounge, newfound Hungarian superstar Azahriah is relaxing with a friend from one of Budapest’s premiere Cumbia bands ahead of his hotly anticipated evening performance while crew members for American pop star Halsey are prepping the evening’s headline set.

Meanwhile, Dagny and her crew – which is an almost entirely Norwegian affair and backstopped by her faithful co-managers Juna and Harry – are getting into stage dress and putting the finishing touches on their 4 PM set.

“Should we just try it? Because I want to do it in Norway and get people singing on the front of the song,” Dagny asks her bandmates with a streak of authority, singing and air-drumming a clip of her biggest hit to date, “Somebody.” While it’s clear she’s the fearless leader, there’s a sense of camaraderie with her group as well.

After a bit more workshopping, she’s into her signature checkered dress, and ready for the stage. Opening with the recent single “Same Again (For Love)” and immediately into an extended rock version of her first child “Backbeat,” the band delivers an electrifying hour of Main Stage entertainment that had the scores who turned out captured in spades.

With expectations for their first gig in Budapest smashed, the group are buzzing and looking eagerly into the night when their Norwegian compatriots Aurora and Karpe are slated to perform. “You have to go see Karpe later,” several bandmates told me, including Dagny herself, ripe with pride for their beloved homeland.

It’s a tale as old as the festival itself. A group of foreigners arrive to Budapest, have an unforgettable time, and turn their eyes towards a return. Though with Dagny and her gang, it seems their day of smiles and success just might say more about their own culture than anywhere they take it.

Words and Photography by Andy Gorel

View the full photo diary below by clicking here

Andy: So you just got off stage at Sziget Festival. How was it?

Dagny: It was really good. I feel like everyone expects you to say that, but every show is so different – especially this summer. We’ve been traveling to so many cities and countries that we’ve never played in where we don’t have established audiences. You get everything from no people to big crowds where nobody really gives a shit. So today, when I say it was good – it was a really nice crowd.

Andy: It was a good size!

Dagny: Yeah, and you could tell that people were giving a lot. They were loose, and they were involved. It’s just an energy. When you’re on stage it’s kind of this dialogue of you giving energy, them giving energy. And that’s when it gets really good. Today, I felt that already on the first song, this was a crowd that was up for it. It was exactly how I was hoping that it would be.

Andy: Was this your first show in Budapest? And have you ever been here before?

Dagny: Yes! I believe we were supposed to do a show here but COVID came and pulled the plug on that. It was supposed to be a club show. We were doing a European round. We’re constantly trying to do new places in Europe.

But no, I’ve never been to Budapest. I don’t think I’ve ever been to Hungary either, so I feel like I’m learning a lot. People have been like, have you had some…

Andy: Kürtőskalács… lángos. 

Dagny: Yes, exactly (laughs). Have you had some food? I was like, “No, not yet!” But I have 12 hours now after the show until we leave tomorrow. I’m planning to make the most of it.

Everyone’s been bragging about this festival. It feels like this summer has been very much – get in a car, drive for hours after having been on a plane, get to the venue, do your soundcheck, do your show, back in the car, drive a few more hours, back on the plane… we haven’t actually been out exploring, not a single country. So today, I feel like I’m gonna make up for all of it.

Andy: I had a buddy come through here on tour a couple of months ago. Same thing, he had an early lobby call the next day but was like, “Dude, we’re going out.”

Dagny: I think when you travel with music, you realize how many countries you’ve been to, but how little of them you’ve seen. So even just making that tiny bit of effort to visit one place, or learn some words… or just talking to someone who can tell you a bit about the country. Being aware of that can really make a difference to how you experience being there – even if it’s just for a half day.

Andy: So I interviewed you in 2017 for C-Heads. And later that year your team reached out to me to do photos with you in Philadelphia.

Dagny: That’s right! I think it wasn’t our team at that point. I think it was like, me and my friend. We did all of that.

Andy: On your own?

Dagny: Yeah we’ve always had a very much, DIY approach. I think sometimes now, when the team has grown so much bigger – I remind myself to not lose that attitude.

Andy: Remember A R I Z O N A? 

Dagny: Yeah.

Andy: Okay, so I remember years ago when they first signed to Atlantic, we were hanging out, and one of them – I think it was Dave – said something like “We have to constantly remember that just because we signed a big deal now – like, this is when it starts.”

Dagny: You know what? I’ve been preaching that for years! Because I feel like so many have the attitude of, “Oh, we got signed. We can just lean back…”

That’s when the real work starts. And I do think that no matter how big your team is, nobody’s ever going to be as motivated or hungry as you. It’s so easy when you get a big team to be like, “Oh, but that’s a bit complicated. That’s a bit difficult.”

Even that LANY tour I did in 2017, we had planned that tour for a while. But right before it happened, my label pulled the support because they wanted me to stay in the studio. They were like, “Actually, we’re not gonna pay for it after all.” I was so set on it. It was obviously a huge tour. It was two or three months on the road – that’s obviously expensive. We had to raise all of that money on our own.

“I do think that no matter how big your team is, nobody’s ever going to be as motivated or hungry as you. It’s so easy when you get a big team to be like, ‘Oh, but that’s a bit complicated. That’s a bit difficult.'”

Dagny: So anyways, as I was saying. Suddenly, in one month, we had to raise so much. And everyone was like “Just let it go. It’s not gonna happen.” But I was so set on making it happen. So me and two friends pretty much – my sister and my girl that was doing some day-to-day – we just sat down and were like, “How are we going to make this happen?”

Andy: And how did you do it?

Dagny: Everything from sending messages to rich people to hire us for shows to…

Andy: Did you open Dagny’s lemonade stand?

Dagny: I mean we would have done anything… We reached out to people we knew like “Hey, we can come and play wherever you want.” So in the end, we managed to make the tour as cheap as we could. We made a lot of our own stuff – like we bought boiler suits so we had matching outfits. That cost like $20 on Amazon, or whatever. We painted all of our stands and equipment white to look cool.

Andy: I remember how hot of a tour that was at the moment.

Dagny: For sure. To this day it’s still one of my favorite tours. And I think that mentality – back to the DIY stuff – if you really want to make it happen, however complicated it seems, with the right attitude you can make a lot more things happen than you think. Sometimes it’s easy to forget that, and you just need to go back to your roots. That’s made a huge difference in many situations.

Andy: Since that tour, you haven’t really played the US much.

Dagny: No! We did one headline tour after that LANY tour, which was really nice. A whole different kind of vibe. But that was the last one we’ve done there… 2018. I guess the reason for that is that I eventually split up with Republic Records.

Andy: I was going to ask about that.

You know, there are many ways to spin situations like that, but I guess one thing that I’ve always had going for me is I’ve been able to spin things into positives. At the time it was a really good decision that we split up. But that also meant that trying to get things going in the US suddenly felt very far away, and difficult, expensive. I think a lot of people forget when you’re a traveling musician… it’s so fucking expensive. It’s crazy. Then COVID happened only a year and a half afterward. There just hasn’t really been an opportunity to do it.

At this point – I’ve never been someone who’s like, “I’m gonna take over the world.” The goal has always just been to be happy doing what I love with good people.

Andy: I think if you have that approach to life you’re going to be happy.

Dagny: Yeah, and I love the shows we play for 50 people as much as the shows we play for thousands of people. Obviously, if I went on tour there now, it wouldn’t be like, “Let’s go conquer the US,” but I think we still have a lot of people there.

Andy: People would definitely show up.

Dagny: Yeah, and that’s what makes me still want to go there. Not because I imagine it’s going to be some massive thing. It would just be so nice to meet the people – some have been there since “Backbeat.”

Andy: Yeah – I remember when “Backbeat” had its own single artwork.

Dagny: See? Exactly! And not a lot of people remember that.

Andy: Speaking of things being expensive – you released that track in an era where Spotify playlists were a thing that just happened. You probably just woke up one day and “Backbeat” was on a playlist, right?

Dagny: Yes.

Andy: It’s not like you paid a playlister to run a campaign, and…

Dagny: We didn’t even have a label. It was a very random thing. Suddenly – and there was no TikTok then – blogs were writing about it. That was on a Wednesday, and the blogs started writing about it on Thursday. Then on Friday, it was all over New Music Friday, but I didn’t even know what New Music Friday was. It was a whole new thing.

You see how much has changed since then, but it just organically did something.

Andy: Well things used to happen more organically. Like, people had music blogs because they liked music. They weren’t trying to monetize it. They did it because it was a form of entertainment. I could go forever here, but you were at the tail end of that era.

Dagny: Yeah, we got the end of it.

Andy: And when did you actually split with Republic? 2018?

Dagny: I think it was – I decided that I wanted to start an album at the beginning of 2019. I guess we just realized what I wanted, and what they wanted, was really different. So they actually let me go, which I thought was a really nice thing to do.

Andy: I had met your A&R before, he seemed like a really nice guy. Simon.

Dagny: He was amazing. And Rob, my head of A&R – he was great too.

They were really championing – I think they saw that I had the drive to do things. And with that machinery, it was hard to make things happen because it was so big. So they were like, “You know what, go and make your album. Do it however you wanna do it.”

Andy: What was the vision they had for you? Getting you on a lot of features, toplining?

Dagny: Yeah, at that time it was a lot of features and DJs. I didn’t really have that story that they could build on in the same way. I think they wanted me to just continue to write, write, write, to someday come up with something that felt like it could be a world smash, and then they would just press the button.

Nowadays, you don’t really have that kind of thing anymore, where you know it’s gonna be a world smash. People can create music, release it, and it finds its own pocket. But back then, everyone was working to try and write the one thing that would change everything. I think they just wanted me to stay in the studio. And in a way I get it, because the music is the most important thing. But I felt I was ready to create an album, and they felt they weren’t ready to commit to an album until they saw a bit more. So we split up, and I just started working immediately, on the album that then came in 2020.

Andy: That makes sense because you’re an actual songwriter. There aren’t many pop artists left who are songwriters, that actually began as songwriters.

Dagny: No, and I think it’s important to mention that songwriting and artistry are two very different things. I definitely have been part of an era – in Norway – where the focus is to write your own music. But I will say some people are amazing songwriters and wouldn’t necessarily go up on a stage. Or some people will go up on stage and be an artist to the bone – there’s just something about them that you can’t put your finger on – but they don’t know how to write music. Those are two different things. Sometimes they’re the same, but sometimes they’re different.

“At this point – ‘I’ve never been someone who’s like, I’m gonna take over the world.’ The goal has always just been to be happy doing what I love with good people.”

Andy: Do you consume albums? I remember you being a big music fan.

Dagny: Yeah. I still remember my dad taking us to the record shop on Fridays when I was a kid, after school because he wanted to check out the whole jazz section. He would be like “You go and find yourself an album.” That’s actually how I got into the whole Spice Girl thing that happened in the 90s. That was because we bought their record, and then it just went crazy.

Andy: What about nowadays? Are you still an album listener? Or more part of the singles culture?

Dagny: No, I like the album. I’m not someone who will check out only albums, but I will wait for them from artists I really like. And I will check out new things if someone says I should check out the album. But the whole discovering music thing, it’s something where sometimes I tell myself…

Andy: The older I get the less I want to hear.

Dagny: I guess also when you’re around music all the time, sometimes when you get home it’s the last thing you want to do. But I don’t want to lose the reason I started with music, which is because I love the feeling I get from it.

I know it’s my job, but I don’t wanna think about it. I’m not expecting everything I do is always fun, but I want to continue to love music for music – not listening to a record and being like, “Hmm, I wonder what plugins they’ve used on this.” I don’t want to analyze. I just wanna listen to music and feel something.

Andy: That’s how I’ve become also. I used to know every writer on every song, and the producers. And would be listening for plugins, popular sounds, etc.

Dagny: Yeah, and of course sometimes I do that.

Andy: Well it is fun, if you know how to produce, to sit and listen. But that’s not always what it’s about.

Dagny: Exactly. Sometimes you just wanna listen to a song 50 times on repeat because it gives you that feeling.

Andy: We’re kind of jumping all over the place, but back to the label split that led to the first album. Did you want to be independent or did you become independent because of the happenstance of the split?

Dagny: Well I am so grateful for my time with Republic. First of all, I didn’t really know much when I started working with them. I feel like I learned so much, and grew a lot. I think when I then became independent, it was a very good time to do it because they were very much like “You don’t release a song unless you really really feel it.” And sometimes today, I feel like there’s this “We have to stay relevant, so just release, release.” But I actually think that the mentality of only releasing a song if you feel it is a good thing. And they were very good with that.

But at the time when I went independent, I kind of had established the sound. I’d released quite a few singles. So it didn’t feel like I was completely starting over or just completely left to myself. We were already doing good gigs and festivals, and stuff like that.

So now I would prefer it, because I like the idea of not having someone telling me what I need to do musically, but just creating something musical, and then have a team that can help me. I guess right now I’m very lucky because I get the best of both worlds.

Andy: Well, you kind of had the ideal situation where you got pushed by the label and then were able to just get out of it.

Dagny: Yeah, and now I have a great label and team in Norway.

Andy: The Little Daggers label you’re published by on Spotify – is that you?

Dagny: Yeah, and then we license to Universal.

Andy: So they have the license to exploit the content within Europe, or whatever the territory is, but you’re the one who drives the creative.

Dagny: Yeah. And then we have different deals for around the world.

Andy: Do you have anything in the US? 

Dagny: No, in the US we have a different situation. There we have someone who just collects royalties, but it’s not a set label on the ground.

Andy: We’ve talked about coming out of the US, and how you’ve toured there, but you’ve become a real mainstay in Norway – which is your home country. What I’ve noticed with Norwegian music is there are artists who are really well established and may have a small number of streams, but are a big deal in Norway, as it’s a country with a small population. What’s it been like to be a big artist in a small country? Especially one that’s your homeland.

Dagny: Absolutely. It’s been a really nice organic growth there. We started off doing the smaller venues, and then for every tour the venues got bigger. We’ve always done it one brick at a time. We’ve never felt like we just rushed to the top, which I think is good. We have some really hardcore people that have followed it for a long time, and that’s a really fortunate position to be in.

In Norway, it’s an interesting thing. I kind of like that you can have an artist that streams under 5 million times and has under 100,000 Instagram followers, but they’re playing huge rooms and selling lots of tickets. And then you can have some artists that have a massive following on social media and stream a lot, but they don’t necessarily tour that much. For us, it’s always been very much about focusing on the live side of things and growing it like that.

Andy: That’s what you want.

Dagny: Yeah, well, at least that’s what I want. I love it. Some people find that they really flourish in the studio, but for me… I could go a period of time where I play without writing that much, but I couldn’t write without playing.

Andy: Interesting.

Dagny: Yeah, for me, playing shows and going around is the big thing. Obviously you won’t be able to meet everyone, but playing a show is where you see firsthand how people react to your music. To me, that’s just special. It’s an energy that’s unlike anything else I know. And I hope I get to fucking tour for as long as I have it in me and longer.

“Playing a show is where you see firsthand how people react to your music. To me, that’s just special. It’s an energy that’s unlike anything else I know. And I hope I get to fucking tour for as long as I have it in me and longer.”

Andy: You’re based in Norway, right? I swore I remembered you telling me years ago that you were based in the United Kingdom. 

Dagny: Yeah. I was based in the UK for six years. I moved back to Norway in 2018.

Andy: Norway is one of the few countries where without even speaking the language I’ve been really impressed with a lot of the music. Brenn. and Zupermaria are a few artists I really love from there. Any Norwegian artists you really love? 

Dagny: I’m going to see Aurora tonight. She’s amazing. She’s created her own universe that’s so impressive. And then Karpe is also playing tonight. They’re doing some incredible things. They sold out an arena 10 nights in August last year which no one has ever done.

And then you have someone like Sigrid who’s done some amazing pop songs, and is just like fierce. She goes up on that stage and just has such a great energy. I’ve really loved her music since the beginning.

Andy: Any other smaller Norwegian artists you really like? 

Dagny: Yeah, for example, Susanne Sundfør, some of her recent albums are some of my all time favorite Norwegian albums. Some of my band members are playing also with a girl called Amelia Nicola. She’s got an incredible voice. Some of these haven’t necessarily branched out of Norway that much, but they could have.

Andy: You know what’s interesting in the United States I don’t think we have that. Charlotte Cardin, you know her? 

Dagny: Yeah.

Andy: A couple of years ago, she did, I’m not even kidding, like 20 sold out headline shows in one month in Quèbec – like 3000 tickets each. I don’t think we have anything like that. Like you could do a ton of festivals in Norway, right? That national pride with music is lacking in the U.S., because you’re so used to having the whole world at your disposal.

Dagny: Absolutely. The U.S. is unique in that sense. If you look to the local music in a lot of countries, you realize how much great stuff is there. You never necessarily have to leave the country. To be able to go on tour in your home country and play good shows is great and impressive. But it just makes me think about how much music I haven’t discovered yet. Like what else is out there?

Andy: In 2017, when I interviewed you, all that was out was the Ultraviolet EP. At the time, I asked you, “How do you feel your music has been received here in the States in comparison to in Europe?” Because we were talking about you coming to the U.S. You were like, “I can’t believe I’m doing a sold out show in New York.”

Dagny: I still can’t believe it!

Andy: And you answered, “This is actually an interesting question, because a lot of people have been saying to me over the past year that I have a much more American sound than a Scandinavian sound.” 

Do you still believe that? Or do you perceive any geographical bend to your music at all? 

Dagny: I don’t know if I could place it exactly. But back to 2016 when I released “Backbeat,” there wasn’t a huge amount of that kind of energetic, female-fronted pop in Norway. That’s changed massively. But there was very much a kind of credible Nordic-sounding stuff or great singer-songwriters.

So it definitely felt like in the U.S. – and I mean, obviously the U.S. is such a big country, there’s so much more stuff. But it felt like it was just connecting in a different way there. And still to this day, you know, you see some places where the music is really connecting and other places it really isn’t. Everything also goes in waves. Sometimes Scandi pop is super cool, and the next moment it’s like, no, no, everything is going to be country-inspired. I just don’t care about trends because they come and go. You have to find your own thing and just stick with it.

Andy: And I think you’re actually more able to do that today.

Dagny: Yeah, for sure. I think nowadays it’s all about just finding those people that connect to your music. And it doesn’t have to be everyone, but as long as you find those people, you just do your thing.

Andy: I’m sure you know the “thousand fan” rule.

Dagny: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think that’s also one of the reasons why I’m sad that we’re not going to the U.S. more because there was just a great energy on those tours as well with the American crowd.

Andy: I mean, that was a moment too. You had the label deal, your song was blowing up, you were a new artist, and the U.S. loves pop culture. You guys got on that LANY tour, which like… that was pandemonium.

Dagny: Yeah and as you say, the U.S. very much embraced that pop thing. At that time, in Norway, it was much more that kind of girl next door vibe.

I feel there’s been a lot of development in that – and music is just one thing. Just visually, there’s so much you can tell just through visuals and how you dress. I don’t want to dress the same when I’m at the store on a Tuesday as I do on stage. I want to be able to have fun with that and maybe be a bit bolder on stage than I normally am, and it’s not because I want to be someone else. It’s just that that’s also a version of me. It might not necessarily be something I would rock in everyday life, but I like that I have an arena where I can live out that as well.

Andy: Yeah, it’s interesting. It’s like a psychology thing, the way the human mind perceives someone who’s on a stage versus someone who’s in line next to them. Even if you are confident and you feel great about how you look – like if you wore something at the grocery store, you might feel like you’re attracting attention. But then when you’re on stage, because the people are there to see you, you’re actually given this higher standing per se. I don’t really know that I have a point with this, but it’s interesting nonetheless. 

Dagny: No, but I think you can – for example, I’m not necessarily someone who, when I am at a party or a dinner craves that energy in that setting. But when I’m on stage, l want people to pay attention.

Andy: Also in our 2017 interview I saw we mentioned Crystal Fighters. I remember you saying you were a fan. You later got to do a track with them.

Dagny: I did!

Andy: I can see you’re beaming with excitement to talk about it… that had to be cool.

Dagny: So far I’ve been lucky because I’ve managed to only pretty much do tracks with people that I actually really like. And it doesn’t matter if it blows up or anything. It’s just cool to be a part of. So it was fun to experience that because even though we never got to spend time in the studio together… it was so cool to have loved them previously. One of their albums, Cave Rave, I think it was.

Andy: I love Cave Rave.

Dagny: That was a big part of my sound for a period of my life.

Andy: I could tell kind of. Your first EP had shades of that. 

Dagny: Yeah, it’s just fun. It’s music that just makes you feel good.

Andy: They’re playing here.

Dagny: Yes, I wish I could stay for the weekend.

Andy: While we’re talking about features. There was a track with BØRNS too. Did you write that together?

Dagny: No, actually I was working with his producer in Los Angeles and then we wrote “Fool’s Gold” and then he had a day in with BØRNS.

Andy: Tommy English?

Dagny: Yeah.

Andy: He killed that first album.

Dagny: It was amazing. I still listen to it quite regularly. He was in the studio the next day with Tommy, and he heard Fool’s Gold. He was like, “I need to be a part of this.” So then he wrote the middle eight, which is the part that he sings.

“If you look to the local music in a lot of countries, you realize how much great stuff is there. You never necessarily have to leave the country. To be able to go on tour in your home country and play good shows is great and impressive. But it just makes me think about how much music I haven’t discovered yet. Like what else is out there?”

Andy: I checked the credits the other day, and I saw another writer on it that I interviewed a while ago for C-Heads. Her artist name is Delacey.

Dagny: She’s a great songwriter. Yeah, we did “That Feeling When” and “Fool’s Gold.” She does her own project now. It’s really good.

Andy: It’s cool “Fool’s Gold” was actually organic, because this was in the era of managers and A&R’s always being like, “Let’s get a feature on it!”

Dagny: When we came back then a few days later, he played it to us. It was just – I was already a fan of him – I heard that part, and was like, “Right, that’s the song.”

Andy: So your first album, Strangers / Lovers. It rolled out during the beginning of the pandemic. What was it like navigating that release cycle? It came out in February 2020, right?

Dagny: Yeah, we started the campaign in February and then released the first half in May and the second in October. It was scary. I honestly think that that album kept me sane through pandemic, because when the pandemic hit in Norway in March, we were spending so much time in the studio. And then we were going to tour that summer, but that obviously didn’t happen. So we actually were able to just spend more time in the studio. I think it really just gave me something to focus on and dig in on.

It really felt like, if anything, I was allowed to focus on it even more. And then obviously in Norway it did very well, so when things were starting to open up a bit, we got to start playing show pretty early. We were able to do streaming things and stuff like that.

In some ways – of course, I’m not glad we had the pandemic, but – I couldn’t have asked for a better way of doing it. It really allowed me to focus, which is a rare thing.

Andy: What was your pandemic activity? What else kept you sane? 

Dagny: That’s when I discovered green plants. And so other than being in the studio with my one executive producer, I just like did some sewing, and discovered green plants. To this day it’s like my biggest hobby. I was like, “I’m obsessed with plants.”

What was your pandemic activity?

Andy: For me, there were two phases. There was the first three months where it was like, “Oh my God, the world is ending and I’m afraid. I’m not leaving.” So a few close friends and I would play video games as our way of being together without being together. But then after that, once things loosened up – because I’m from a tiny town where we didn’t really have many cases during the lockdown era, it just became swimming in lakes, drinking outside, playing and singing with an acoustic guitar.

I had a bit of an awakening that summer. I think being away from everything made me really appreciate, like, the land in front of me and the people around me.

Dagny: You also realize how much pressure you get from social media, because everyone’s always doing something and you can’t compare yourself to the sum of the best things everyone’s doing.

But in that situation, we were all just at home. It didn’t feel like you were missing anything. For me, I think up until 2020, I had been working nonstop for so many years. So I was kind of forced to stop for a minute. I think in many ways that was really healthy for me.

Andy: You know, I thought it was going to do more for us as a society than it did. I thought more people were going to have that experience and be like, “Wow, like I really like underestimated…” like I thought it was going to be when the Earth gets right.

Dagny: Yeah, I know what you mean.

Andy: But it didn’t really happen.

Dagny: Yeah, it went back to more of the same. I hope some managed to take the “good parts” – if you can say the “good parts” of the pandemic with them.

Andy: There were good parts.

Dagny: There were good parts. For me, I think that slowing down – you know, being out in nature on a normal Tuesday and not feeling like you have to be constantly working on something or whatever. I think I needed that a little bit.

Andy: You felt like a human being. We all felt like we were human beings.

Dagny: Yeah, and I think that in some ways we also felt more connected to each other because we all saw each other’s situations. I’ve never communicated as well with my fans as I did during that period because we were all experiencing the same thing.

Andy: On Strangers / Lovers there’s a song called “Paris.” I looked at the lyrics and lyrically I thought it had some similar tropes to the song “Budapest” by George Ezra.

Dagny: Oh yeah! I love that song.

Andy: Kind of like “You don’t need all these things.” His is more “I’d give it all away.” Yours is a little different, the lyrics are “We don’t need Paris.” It’s the idea of not needing anything but a person. Earlier today you actually spoke to me about Paris, and how you love it. But why did you choose Paris for this metaphor? What made you choose specifically that European city?

Dagny: Funnily enough, it’s actually a compliment to Paris. I was a bit scared the first time we went to Paris after that. I was like, “Oh my God, I hope they don’t think that I mean that in a bad way.”

Obviously I have a very close relationship with London, but I’ve always like totally romanticized, and had really nice experiences in Paris. It’s always been kind of the first place that comes to mind when I think, “I have to just get away.” Which I don’t really do that often. But if I did, I would be like, “Let’s go to Paris.” It’s kind of that idea of like… you’re just really putting Paris high up there.

Then, you know, I started dating someone and realize, “I have an equally good time sitting on this concrete floor in this apartment, eating frozen pizza with you. I love doing that with you. We don’t need to go to Paris.” Like, you know, “We don’t have to go somewhere.”

He had all these ideas of what a relationship should be – like going on holidays together and other things.

Andy: So it came out of friction in a relationship?

Dagny: No, actually it came out of a place of just realizing you don’t need all of that stuff. Like if you’re happy with someone, then you could be wherever and doing whatever. And that’s enough.

Like all the material stuff. At the time, he was in a position – we didn’t have much – he lived in a tiny, tiny flat, driving a car that was pretty much falling apart. All of my exes have always had cars that are beat up. That’s been with my two past exes, they both had a beat-up car.

Andy: That’s good. That’s a green flag, I think. 

Dagny: Yeah, I think so. So it’s realizing that that’s not the stuff that matters at all. We don’t have to go to Paris. We can like, go for a walk, and I would love that equally as much.

“For me, I think up until 2020, I had been working nonstop for so many years. So I was kind of forced to stop for a minute. I think in many ways that was really healthy for me.”

Andy: Your brand new album, ELLE. We talked about not releasing music unless you’re convicted it’s good. Eight songs. 

Dagny: Yeah.

Andy: There aren’t many eight-song albums being released today. What made you be like, “These are the eight”?

Dagny: Honestly, just with the schedule that I was doing – sometimes think maybe I’m strict to default when it comes to knowing what a good song is. Like, I can’t say like, “This is going to be a banger.” I can only say, “Do I feel really connected to this song, or not?” Often I live with songs for quite a long time.

Andy: I think if you do it the right way, that’s how it happens. 

Dagny: Yeah. Sometimes songs will drop off in the process because, I just got sick of them after a while. I’ll think, “Okay, well maybe they don’t have the longevity. If I’m already sick of it, how am I going to feel in five years?”

I realized that I wanted to do an album, and I just felt like at this point where I’m at musically – where I want to go – I just don’t feel like it’s realistic that I’m going to be able to do 12 songs. When I set the goal of 8 songs, it felt realistic. Then actually, during the process, I was like, “No, actually, I’m going to do 10 or 12 songs.” But I just didn’t have 10 or 12 songs that I felt fit together and I loved as much as those 8 songs.

It felt like after the previous album, I wrote so many different types of songs, but I couldn’t make them all fit together. So I had this idea of like doing three mini albums. And that just felt more realistic to me.

Andy: So this is the first of the three? You’re working on other ones? 

Dagny: Yeah, I’m just starting now on album two.

Andy: Also, I don’t think people really understand this. When you make records the right way, which isn’t like, always common anymore, it’s a lot.

Dagny: It takes so long! There’s so much effort that goes into it! Holy shit.

Andy: It’s often like, “Oh, we’re just going to take the demo…” Like, a producer sends another producer a stem. And the drums are like, all bounced together, and they don’t sound good. I mean, I guess some of the amp sims are pretty good now, but even with that… like, I’m an amp guy. I’m a real drum guy. I want my hi-hat to be played with a kit. You know what I’m saying? 

Dagny: Yeah.

Andy: So, when you do all these things – which like, it’s apparent you do on at least some the new record – it sounds really good.

Dagny: Yeah, there’s a bit of live drumming on ELLE.

Andy: You can tell when it’s analog recording. When you do it that way, and you’re fully in charge as the guiding producer, it takes so long. 

Dagny: And that’s not even counting all the times you like, try something that didn’t work… and something else that didn’t work. And then you try on one song, and after about a week and a half, you realize it didn’t turn out the way you thought it would. Then maybe after three months, you realize that it didn’t take the turn you wanted it to. It’s a process.

Andy: Sure, sometimes you produce a song three times.

Dagny: Yeah. With “Hate Being Alone,” I think we’ve had 10 different versions of it. It really all comes down to time and place. Like, the record a year ago looked very different from how it ended up. You have to be open. It has its own little journey, but it really is time-consuming.

Hands down to the Taylor Swifts of the world who tour massively while they put out 30-song albums, and then the next year there’s another record. I don’t know how they do it.

But honestly, eight songs is what I managed to do. There was a bit of shit when I put it out. Like, “Why is it only eight songs?” And I expected that.

Andy: Like from fans? 

Dagny: Yeah, there were a few comments like that… not lots of shit. But I did my best and that’s what I managed to do.

Andy: I mean, it’s eight songs. That’s an album. Even if it was six songs, and it was an EP… then it’s an EP. It’s a full body of work.

Dagny: And I think with the next one, it’s still a work in progress and I’m just going to let it happen.

Andy: Was there a guiding theme for the album? 

Dagny: I felt like there was a disconnect between what we do live and what I do on record. So the first inspiration came from bringing more of the live sound into the studio – which you hear on “Heartbreak In The Making” particularly.

“I felt like there was a disconnect between what we do live and what I do on record. So the first inspiration came from bringing more of the live sound into the studio – which you hear on ‘Heartbreak In The Making’ particularly.”

Andy: That’s the one that caught my ear the most. You could tell with the guitar and the drums, like, “This is a record.”

Dagny: Yeah, and also “Somebody’s Baby” has a lot of that. To some degree “Ray-Bans” too.

Andy: That one sounds good too. The guitar sounds really nice on that one.

Dagny: Yeah. Then obviously as time passed by, I did some songs like “Strawberry Dream” and “Same Again (For Love)” that I didn’t think the record was going to have. But I just love those songs so much that I was like, “Okay, so there’s going to be a little bit of both here.”

It’s almost like one step in a new direction but with some of the old flavors.

Andy: Yeah. Well, your first EP was very much a live record.

Dagny: Yeah, for sure. And live, we are very live, you know?

Andy: You are. And I was actually thinking that, watching you guys play. Because I remember you struck me as a music person years ago when I saw you at that Mercury Lounge show. I remember you had like seven or eight people in the band. That’s the thing where if you really care about it, you’ll do it. Many artists today, I’ll love their records, but then you go see them live, and you’re listening to Ableton. Maybe there’s a drummer.

Dagny: And to some degree, I get that as well. Because financially, sometimes it’s what you gotta do.

Andy: Well financially, of course. 

Dagny: But for me, I would love to do more of what we do live in the studio.

Andy: You’re being humble. Give yourself credit for paying a full band, and doing it the right way.

Dagny: And they’re fucking amazing. I love them.

Andy: They are good. You have a good band.

The next question I have is about “Heartbreak In The Making.” Where did the inspiration for that song come from? And also, I’m sure you know this – it’s impossible to not hear The Verve in the opening sequence.

Dagny: Which actually, to be fair, it wasn’t actually like… I listen to so much indie music. I love The Verve. But, in the moment when we did the song, we didn’t think about it.

Andy: That happens all the time.

Dagny: And then when we became aware of it… I’ve always been very quick to cut something if it feels too similar. But then I loved the song. So we checked, like, are we touching on the same?

Andy: It’s not the same. It tails off after two measures.

Dagny: Yeah, we had someone come in and compare them actually.

Andy: A musicologist?

Dagny: Yeah, and I see the reference there.

Andy: Also, with that track in particular, they stole it from an old orchestra many years ago.

Dagny: Yeah, and if anything, in my world, it’s a cool band reference. Because I really do love their music. “Heartbreak In The Making” was actually the first song I wrote that made me feel like I wanted to do an album. When I wrote that song, it had been two years of not connecting with anything I’d written, which was very frustrating. That song came and I was like, “Right… this feels like something I want to continue to build on.” And that producer Oliver Lundström ended up executive producing the whole album. It sounds good. A lot of guitar and real drums.

“When I wrote that song, it had been two years of not connecting with anything I’d written, which was very frustrating. That song came and I was like, ‘Right… this feels like something I want to continue to build on.’”

Andy: Is there a song on the album, like a deep cut, that you really love?

Dagny: “Close,” I guess. Actually, “Somebody’s Baby” is a bit like that as well. I feel there are a few songs.

I think “Somebody’s Baby” is going to be so fun to play live and touches on a subject that… Most people who have been in a long-term relationship… I dare to say that during a lifetime, even if you’re in a relationship and you’re so committed – if you’re lucky, you are going to meet other people that you connect with.

And a part of you is like, “different time, different place, maybe it could have been a different story.” It doesn’t mean that you’re stepping over any boundaries. But just connecting with something is a good feeling. So I felt like that song definitely put words on something that I hadn’t put words on before – but have experienced.

And I think it’s very taboo to say it. Like, “Oh, but if you have a boyfriend you can’t connect with someone else.” But I think if you go through the rest of your life after you’ve met your lifelong partner, never connecting with anyone… I mean, that just feels really sad to me. Connecting with people is one of the most beautiful things in the world.

Andy: I agree. And I think maybe there’s a bias that goes with it. We’re both speaking from a place of privilege… I hope this doesn’t come out the wrong way, but we’re clearly both very social, educated, fun to be around… I’m not gonna sit here and be like, “We’re the two best people on earth!” 

But I think maybe some people don’t have the confidence, or they latch fully onto something.

Dagny: Yeah, or maybe sometimes when you meet someone and you commit to that, your blinders go down and just don’t open your eyes.

Andy: That too, comfort maybe.

Dagny: And I think it’s insane to expect that one person in your life is gonna wear all the hats.

Andy: Like they’re gonna be your mother or something.

Dagny: Yeah, it’s like sometimes you meet someone and decide, you’re gonna be together. And the stuff that’s great is what makes it good. But then maybe there are other people in your life that you’re great for. You know, you have good conversations and connect and understand each other.

Like, maybe, “When we’re together we talk about plants, which my partner doesn’t know much about,” or whatever. It can be on a deeper level than that. But what I mean is you will hopefully meet people through your life that you can connect with in other ways. And it doesn’t mean you’re out there hooking up or whatever. It’s not like that. It’s just that feeling of connection with another human.

And I think I was in a period of my life where I was like, “That’s wrong!” But I have friends that I connect with. Why is it wrong?

For example, maybe you’re on tour with someone, and you notice that you really get along. Maybe after the tour you never see them again, or they’re not a part of your everyday life, but it was a really nice moment.

Andy: That’s something I’ve been thinking about lately actually. As you go through life it becomes harder and harder to stay in touch with everybody you get along with also. Sometimes you just connect for a bit and move on.

Dagny: Yeah it’s all time and place. And what I mean with “Somebody’s Baby,” is it’s one of the situations where like – say you meet someone, fall in love and basically end up living your life together. But maybe 10 years into your relationship, you meet someone else. And you have that connection, but because you may be both married or whatever, you’re not going to go there. But if you met 20 years ago, maybe the whole story would have been different.

Andy: And you’re saying how there’s like a taboo around that, but that’s just human. That’s just life.

Dagny: It’s just life. Just because you’re married doesn’t mean you’re never going to connect with anyone else. It’s not like you’re not going to leave your partner for that person. But what I’m saying is I don’t believe that there’s only one person for everyone.

Andy: No, neither do I. That’s a sad thought.

Dagny: It’s just time and place. I think you decide to stay with someone, but sometimes you will meet someone who makes you think, “Oh yeah, I wonder if we both hadn’t been married… maybe we could have had a lovely life together.” And it stops there. You know what I mean?

Andy: Yeah.

Dagny: It was a fun thing to write about because I think that there’s very much a taboo around it. But I still think that for most people during their life, they will meet someone that they feel like that with.

“Connecting with people is one of the most beautiful things in the world.”

Andy: Since we caught up in 2017, how do you feel your career has changed since? Would you have ever expected any of this? 

Dagny: No. Simple.

Andy: Yeah (laughs).

Dagny: Yeah, I’m just… there’s one quick thing to say about that. It sounds so cliche, but I will have several moments during a week where I just pinch my arm being like, I can’t believe how long I’ve been able to do this already. And I love every moment of it. I honestly do.

Andy: What about Dagny Sandvik? As a person, what kind of perspective do you think you’ve gained from your career as an artist in the industry?

Andy: The first time I’ve stumped you all night.

Dagny: Yeah… that is true. It is the first time.

Dagny: If anything, I think having traveled around so much, and having met so many different people from so many different cultures… I think I’ve just really gotten confirmation that there are a lot of good people out there.

I think even with the industry – there’s so much talk about it being such a horrible industry and stuff. I haven’t had a lot of those really bad experiences. I’ve mainly had really nice experiences.

Andy: I talk so much shit on the industry. And then I look at, like, “Oh, this guy’s like a brother to me… Oh, she’s like a sister to me,” and so on. I look at where I met probably at least a quarter of them, and I’m like… it was the fucking music industry. 

Dagny: Yeah, exactly. And I do think that with traveling around, you realize that you’re able to connect with people all over the world. We live completely different lives, or come from completely different backgrounds… But we connect through, just like being human. It’s been really nice to see. Just being human alone, there are a lot of similarities. It’s been really nice to travel around.

And I think in the music industry, being a songwriter – you get into pretty deep conversations quite quickly. I’m very grateful for having met so many people that dare to be open, and talk, and we connect even though maybe we come from completely different things. If anything I’ve just realized there are a lot of really good people out there.

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